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BackedBy’s Dax Herra appeared on the second episode of FOMO or Pass, pitching his new decentralized finance (DeFi) platform. The show aims to educate viewers on the latest crypto and blockchain projects, while allowing them to decide whether to invest or not. Herra explained how BackedBy aims to provide users with a more transparent and secure platform for accessing crypto lending and borrowing services. While the panelists raised some concerns around regulation and user adoption, they ultimately decided to give BackedBy a pass.
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So welcome back to another episode of fomo or pass I’m joined with Brian Evans and today we’ll be talking to back by the premises show is to invite early stage projects to come on board and Pitch us their idea their new project and Dax from backed by is here to do
That welcome back all right guys thanks for having me all right back by let me tell you about what it is um I don’t know how from so we’re all we’re all familiar with web3 I think one thing that web 3 is sorely missing is recurring payment rails
Um on the in traditional Finance recurring payments are ubiquitous you know they’re projected to be 1.5 trillion dollars I think in recurring payments uh kovit accelerated this but as a part of these you got your your cable and your your uh your your subscription for Life basically
Um and part of that is uh what’s known as a passion economy or as a Creator economy that is uh podcasters like yourselves streamers YouTubers models uh basically anybody who’s selling their their passion their art to their fans uh patreon is a great example of this um there’s 200 million I think creators
In the world right now and that’s growing constantly um the other side of this that’s the that’s the Bare Bones of what we’re building but the there’s a deeper uh there’s a deeper meaning to it for web3 I think and that is that uh Financial censorship uh payment processors Banks
Uh these these entities that exist currently as middlemen for your uh for you but between you and your fans are exerting more and more control over how we conduct ourselves online and the best example I can give of this is um is Twitter and Elon Musk you know we’re all
Familiar with Twitter and Elon musk’s uh um uh purchasing of Twitter for for 44 billion dollars to protect the sanctity of of expression and communication between people on the globe uh backed by our mission is similar but for web 3 we built a payment rails a recurring subscription payment rails so that
Anybody can use web 3 to crowdfund to fund their podcast to fund their art to fund their expression from their fans directly so you can set up whatever you want it’s exactly like patreon but it’s on polygon it’s on the blockchain you set up whatever you want and you own
That audience for for the rest of time you know for the rest of the blockchain there’s no more dealing with getting D platform getting censored you don’t have to worry I’m a content creator I know you guys are content creators uh I don’t know if this happens to you but this
Happens to so many people in the content creation space where they just they wake up every day afraid that they’ve done something wrong or that they’ve they’ve stepped on the wrong Toes or a joke that they made didn’t get understood correctly and their whole business is wiped out
Um this is what we want we want to return the power of owning of owning your business of owning your your uh your audience to creators where it belongs honestly creators spending 10 percent of their of their gross of their uh of their of their art 10 of their
Revenue just for web hosting uh I think that’s I think it’s egregious we think it’s egregious so we built this we built backed by to give web3 recurring payment rails uh in a way that is not censorable uh not uh not revocable non-revocable in a way that
You can truly own so I think that’s the I think that’s the that’s the overall and the you know it’s it’s part it’s part of an existence it’s part of this uh this ideological push for what the purpose of web3 is get bringing it to the masses bringing
It to people who who didn’t really have a use case for web 3 before this I think um everybody’s used to you know monkey jpegs and and gambling on uh speculative coins with with meme names but this is a real backed by is a real utility for the
Web uh something that for web 3 something that I don’t think exists in a way that’s easy to explain to people right now um so it’s I think it’s great what what these guys have built I didn’t you know I’m not I’m not a good uh it’s not a
Good programming as the guys who built it but it’s really incredible what they’ve built and I hope uh I hope people give it a give it a look because it’s uh it’s a it’s a big step from the web 2 world where corporations own your data to web3 where where you own your
Data so you’re you’re basically the best way to think about it is your project back by is a decentralized version of patreon since you mentioned them a couple times that fair yeah that’s fair that’s our that’s our our first step so we’re gonna grow because that’s uh that’s a simple
Use case of it we’re gonna grow from there into crowdfunding kickstarting monetized messaging charitable giving which is like 600 uh 500 600 billion 300 billion a year industry or something like that into into actual uh uh b2c uh subscriptions but yeah patreon’s step number one
By the way you can share your screen if you wanted to uh I don’t think I want to I I appreciate the offer but I haven’t had enough time this morning to give it you know the old oh God is this safe on this screen yeah and so you know I’m
Really familiar with the whole merchant processing business and and I was between SAS that I’ve had and e-commerce and you know the subscription game is is just difficult you know you have to maintain certain ratios in the traditional world of chargebacks and things like that so it is quite it is a
Good use case um the I guess the question is is how does it work so um you know on one hand is it some is it these smart contracts that authorize the pull out of your wallet every month is it a new polygon version of an EIP
Protocol you don’t have to give me technicals but but what’s the general idea of how it works yeah the general the general idea of how it works is they’re you’re they’re authorized to pull out of your wallet every month uh we’ve got nodes running subscription upkeep uh elements of the contract which
Can be run by anyone so the the overall um the overall theme when we were developing or the the uh the the the guiding principle was make sure that nothing can turn this off for any reason uh anybody can run their own upkeeps we have chain link Keepers as backup
Running the subscription refill nodes uh but yeah we have also looked at uh the EIP the new eipes we’re describing because I’ve heard of people running this but you know I’ve heard of this concept before but I’ve been actually seen anyone doing it um and I guess the the risk is always
They just pull the funds out of their wallet that kind of thing um is there any any way to well have that or you know they could do that with a credit card too they can turn off their credit card we want to give supporters access you know control over their funds
Um locking it in something like a like a like a vesting schedule smart contract that’s a bit out of the scope because this is like I want to support my favorite podcaster until I don’t want to anymore but as long as people can control uh we’re also we also we made it
Composable so if you want to have a subscription model that’s based on you know I don’t know safe moon or any erc20 token you can Implement that as well it’s it’s uh it’s very plug and play and I think security risks are going to be the first the next thing
People think about you know who built it I guess is the question you mentioned the guys that built it you know you audited it and that kind of stuff yes it’s audited by Sir Tech um the top one I think they’re the top ones we’ve got uh we’ve got a guy we’ve
Got a combined total of Dev hours is probably 60 years and the team uh one of the our blockchain Engineers a big security uh guy on his you know in his day job but we also got it audited by certain because obviously that’s that’s the most important thing
Um I think that’s the most important thing in crypto in general right now is the rugs and the scams have uh have really given the entire industry a black eye so so that was a big deal for us uh which which uh tokens uh do you currently support you say you’re on
Polygon is it just Matic eth all your RC 20 tokens so uh if you look at it from the point of view of a of a Creator a new a Creator a podcast or somebody who knows nothing about web3 they can’t pay their rent in Matic like you say crypto
And they think oh God so I you know today I’ve got three grand tomorrow I’ve got 500 I can’t live like that so our entire system as it as it stands right now as the patreon um as a patreon web as a patreon clone uh is stablecoin uh tether usdc and die
You can use only those three to set up your projects and pay we’ve got a swap interface built in if you have Matic or something else but it’s really important to us to get the trust of creators and artists who who need this as real world money for them like they
They put their art into the world and they need they need it to be five dollars and they need to have five dollars at the end of the month to buy groceries so our interface at backed up by is stablecoin only for that reason and how many creators do you have signed
Up right now on your platform we’re brand new I think we’ve got about 20 and we’re I think we’ve got a combined total of about three thousand dollars in monthly recurring Revenue which is not not bad um but you know obviously we’d love more I think um in the Newbie crypto world
People are gun shy about getting in but it’s Unstoppable uh the financial censorship is going to get worse the fees are gonna get higher uh I think what we’re bringing to the table is is an evolution in the in the passion economy well and I I I agree I think it’s I do
Think this is a really good concept I think I guess my question is you know who’s who are the team members who’s building this like what’s the marketing plan like how will you get from 3 000 a month to 300 000 sure so I’ve been uh I’ve been podcasting for about 10 years
Um I’m gonna reach out to my network of friends and get them on uh the marketing plan is is slow and steady uh it is a it is a very big ask to get creators to leave platforms for a new one or to try new ones out uh the marketing plan is
Going to be um Word of Mouth through me and others uh We’ve also we’re also going to be releasing a a gum Road competitor and a Kickstarter competitor in the next couple months so uh the the buy-in for something like a gum Road where they’re one-off purchases I think will be a
Little bit easier for people than recurring Revenue so that’ll be kind of like the the first taste dip your towel into into web3 and see how easy it is before you commit to just putting to moving your entire platform over there but um yeah it’s gonna be you know it’s
Going to be new creators in Word of Mouth it’s a very it’s a very big ask to get new people on to get DJ ends to go from one platform to another that’s a piece of cake but to get people to move their their livelihood over that’s big
And how do you plan on your how do you plan on making money what’s your economic model with uh with your project we take a percentage of we take a percentage of every every subscription so every renewal which is I think standard for for everybody else for for
Patreon only fans uh we take much a much much lower percentage than them and a lot of it’s voluntary uh I think that is going to be a major driver too only fans takes like 25 of your money 22 locals takes 12 patreon takes up to 15.
Uh we take the default instead of five you can give as low as one uh people give people can give whatever they want but our um our monetization model is um is percentage and it is it is lower no matter how you slice it than any of the
Other competitors and do you have a token we haven’t launched it yet but we do have a token we’re uh we’re figuring out if we should launch it on polygon or east how will that tie in so that’s going to be that’ll be a utility token uh we don’t have we don’t
Have a forced tokenomics scheme on our project again with trying to earn people’s trust in crypto uh it’ll be a governance token and you know we think that these platforms should be owned by creators since creators build them they should be partially owned by creators so as the
Revenue as our Revenue ramps up we’re going to give a a pro rat a share we’ve got 10 of the tokens marked for creators on the platform and we’re going to distribute them among the creators but otherwise we’ve got uh it’s a pretty normal distribution for uh for Founders and developers like 20
And then marketing we’ve got another a 30 of the treasury and investing stuff like that anything with nfts you know because I could see a use case here with like a membership pass or something yeah so uh here’s the here’s the interesting Collision of um of what we’re doing in
Kind of traditional web 2 um Shopify has a an nft coupon ticketing system so for for artists um ticketing as nfts is just so much easier than the traditional database QR code like how do I sell this ticket to somebody else uh a major a major feature
We’re going to add is a built-in nft Factory that’ll let you do merch coupons uh ticketing and that will all interface with what Shopify already has so connecting the web 3 world to meet space via Shopify plugins is something we’re going to roll out soon
Do you have a road map for for some of the things that you have just talked about like this I do next we’re working on the nft uh Shopify um setup that I mentioned um we’ve got Kickstarter we want to do low hanging fruit like Kickstarter clone
Um only fans clone uh and then a a Super Chat clone like these are the these are the services streamers and creators use that big companies are taking gigantic cuts of uh and they don’t deserve it they’re just running a computer somewhere it’s your audience you know you deserve that money
So that’s that’s step one and then erc20 integration so you can throw meme coins into the mix probably some kind of Oracle so you still get paid in real money and then after that we’d like to move into the b2c space so if you if you want to set up a coffee
Subscription on your on your website uh but you want to you want trip you want to handle crypto automatically you could use us you could set up a little widget like you would now on on stripe or or PayPal or something like that and you come to Back by you’d set up your
Business and uh you would use you would use our widget to power your to power as your as your point of sale for your for your coffee business um as I said that’s a 1.5 trillion dollar industry so I mean let me just ask you this and this goes back to what
Brian was asking about marketing I mean you know some of these creators they’re making hundreds of thousands of dollars despite the fees on patreon or only fans or locals whatever how do you plan on I know that your your pitches yes this is decentralized and yes uh you get to own
It you don’t have to worry about being shut down and the fees are lower but for some of these guys they may not care and why would they risk switching to your platform when they’re already making so much like what is your strategy is there like an in-between or something else
That that makes the transition easier yeah um that’s a it’s a very nuanced question because I’ve been doing it for so long and I know a lot of these guys very well um it’s very difficult for them to recommend something that they don’t understand they understand traditional patreon locals they understand that
Model but because they don’t understand the blockchain it’s hard for them to get behind I think uh there’s also this this notion of platform fatigue um as we as we move into I think the next year the next couple of years the fees are going to go up and the
Restrictions are going to get more severe uh we’re already seeing it happening we’re going to have companies fold and companies charge just the idea of paying 25 when you could be paying five is going to start whittling away at these companies in my opinion the idea of possibly losing your entire audience
Because one of these companies goes under because it couldn’t meet investor expectations or it just couldn’t afford to keep the servers online uh these are going to compound into driving people into web 3. I think there’s a it’s it’s all tied into this idea that web 3 is the future
Right which it is like we’re Believers in but the the reason is because as infrastructure web 3 is more efficient everything that’s done on web3 is better um and all of it all of this buy-in by us like as people who are already in is contingent on that fact like
It’s a it’s a difficult question because I think they’re going to come in a wave you know it’s not like it’s not like you’re selling a better phone to somebody so you like your phone this is slightly better features it’s um it’s an entire infrastructure uh it’s an entire
Uh infrastructure replacement so I think it’s going to happen gradually and those are going to be the drivers of it the best thing we can do is make our product as imperceptible on the surface as what they’re currently using so we have things like email login uh use your
Credit card uh Everything is Everything is devoid of the um of the kind of uh the blockchain uh the in your face blockchain terminology that you would have seen two three years ago uh it’s not it’s not a good answer but I think it’s a realistic one I mean it’s a real
A real yes I mean that’s like a 10 000 foot kind of answer yeah um you know I’m just throwing this out there you look at what Rumble did right with YouTube they went after the people that were banned specifically and a lot of them converted because they had
Nowhere else to go and then other people paid attention right I was expecting you kind of to give that answer like hey these content creators they’re huge maybe they get a banned then we can play on the board right yeah rumble’s got 100 million dollars to throw around rumble’s
Putting big money into these contracts and I mean to be honest I don’t think it’s smart they’re put they’re giving out uh gigantic they’re paying money essentially for audience capture and I mean in my opinion I’ve seen I’ve seen companies try that before I don’t think
That’s how you do it I think you’ve got to earn it organically um we also don’t have a hundred million dollars to throw around but yeah the band guys they’re definitely they’re definitely the ones to go after Brian anything else I think I’m out of questions no thank you thank you for
Coming thanks guys have a good one stop by check us out all right I’ll have your uh I’ll have your website link in the description anyone watching this right now if you’re interested in learning more head over to the website thanks for joining us again Dax yep see you guys
Cheers thank you have a good morning all right all right so what do you think um I like the premise I really do I mean I like it I like projects where you can summarize really easily and this is a decentralized patreon very easy to understand right away especially for Content creators
Um I like how you can just explain it right away and I do like the fact that this is built on polygon so uh it’s utilizing smart contracts and I like what he said about you know trying to incentivize creators to move over because it’s cheaper and if you believe
In decentralization and you know um not having a centralized entity be able to shut you down if you get those things then yes I think this is a a big I think this is a big project that that can do I mean a big idea project that
Could do well however I think you you you hit it on the head with security concerns I think people are gonna be very yeah uh I don’t think they’re gonna like the idea where you know the the smart contract basically you know enables a wallet withdrawal right and that’s like
Very anti-crypto yeah yeah you know I was in the merchant I mean I was in the um I was in various businesses that used merchant processing e-commerce SAS um products and um this was a common issue with subscriptions um and so one of the other Possible Pain
Points I don’t maybe he didn’t realize is um the processing itself can be very difficult yeah patreon and those exist now but for certain businesses e-commerce specifically if you hit a certain number of chargebacks and this applies to any business um they’ll shut you down immediately
Um so they they I think he missed some of the pain points um but yeah I think well conceptually I really like it right I think conceptually it could work I think the problem is you have to find a niche that people are willing to jump through the
Hoops to to do this to keep crypto on their wallets and then also it’s going to make sense economically for the business owners to want to use this mod model at the risk of people not refilling their wallets I understand the credit card analogy but I think this is
A little bit different security concerns and also the marketing strategy to me just wasn’t really there um I think that uh they’re I think it’s a really good novel idea I think it may work in certain minimum circumstances I just I don’t know I don’t see how I
Don’t see it being a big enough pain point right now for me to want to invest in yeah I would say I I agree with that I mean me personally I don’t know I mean Dak said he he’s a content creator himself I don’t know what kind of sway
He has what kind of friends he has I mean if he’s but but let me ask you just just to cut you off for a second let me ask you so so me so I know you and I’m like George you’ve got XYZ business you have patreon switch over because you
Know me right you’re not going to turn down you know hundreds of thousands a month or more you know whatever the amount is um just to use this kind of Novel platform right yeah I agree except for the controversial people that’s why I brought up Rumble and I you know like
You know for for YouTubers uh influencers you know people are afraid to get canceled by like YouTube or whatever streaming platform right and I’m sure some controversial figures are also the same way about patreon actually in fact we heard patreon cancel a few people’s accounts um I can’t think of this specific
Example but I remember hearing about that so that’s why I asked about that strategy because I I would say some people will be forced to to change because they have no other way of doing something like this uh yeah and especially if you get someone that’s really big that people follow you know
That can spur a lot of like people do to come in but I agree with you if it’s like a normal folk someone that’s perfectly fine you know it’s really hard for them to switch from patreon because it’s already set in stone and it just works every month to convert to
Something new right yeah I agree with you that’s gonna be a very hard conversion just like yeah convincing someone to get off of YouTube to go to some other streaming platform even if they offer lower fees YouTube is the biggest and it’s there like you know it’s really hard to make that switch
Yeah and also kind of a gray area businesses that you know can’t really get a platform somewhere else maybe even crypto maybe even certain crypto things itself if it’s you know in some kind of regulatory gray area I could see using this because it’s decentralized right
Right um but yeah I agree I think I think um if you’re established somewhere else it’s working you’re not going to probably switch over unless you have a really strong pain point and reason to do that and they just didn’t have the they didn’t have any good enough answer
Of how they were going to get people otherwise to make for me yeah and then the last point I want to make is um I feel like Dax you know he mentioned I asked about the road map he mentioned like all these things he wants to do
Right very ambitious things to kind of draw in you know all these different kind of categories into what he wants to do which I think he may be um it’s gonna be a challenge and it may take his Focus away from just really building the core which is to get all
The content creators to come aboard and utilize the decentralized patreon so I mean for me I’m going to say pass for now but I will say this I I like the concept I think this is what web3 is about moving web 2 stuff to web3 so I
Really like the concept I think they’re just too early now if they you know if you would have told me that they had like a thousand content creators on here already and they’re processing millions of um million dollars worth of uh transactions per month then it’s a
Different story right but now it’s so early we don’t know if they can get any network effect any network traction that’s why I’m agreeing with you it would pass but I’d like to certainly keep my eyes on them in the future and see if they do pick up likewise I think
I’m with you there on the past but conceptually I really like it I just I don’t know if content create is even the right Niche um you know maybe it’s e-commerce or maybe it’s it’s some other gray area regulatory issue business um uh that has struggles I think you
Need I think you need stronger pain points I just don’t think content creators currently have the strongest pain points into what we were talking about with Rumble people are paying out lots of money to bring people over to other platforms so why are they going to come to this when there’s more more
Roadblocks to get people on board unless they have an audience that’s entirely in crypto perhaps yep Fair points Fair points yeah all right uh thanks for tuning in everyone to another episode of fullmore pass we will continue to invite we will continue to invite promising new early stage
Projects like this every single week so make sure you hit that subscribe button hit that notification Bell and we will see you next week have a good one see ya bye all right so I’m gonna stop recording
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